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Aug. 15th, 2012 03:37 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
thehawkinhisnestWho: Clint Barton and Natasha Romanov
What: Notes: Backstory: How they met
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hawkinhisnest
okay. can we discuss Clint and Natasha's backstory, at some point? because their history in the comics doesn't really fit in the MCU without deleting big chunks
Natasha!mun
Considering comics!Natasha is, like, as old as Steve, if I remember correctly? Yeah, no. :-P
So, yeah. We should talk backstory.
hawkinhisnest
well, and comics!Clint joins the Avengers because he and Natasha were going up against Tony, and when that didn't end well, he changed sides. but I mentally had it that they had never met before Clint was ordered to kill her
Natasha!mun
*nods* Yeah, that was my thought, too.
Natasha!mun
Like I said, I like the fact that she was using ballet as a cover when she was the bad guy ... and I kind of ... imagine whoever was sending her out to kill people, like, had her assassinating high profile targets that way. Like ... "HAY YOU WANNA MEET THE LEAD DANCER? :-D :-D :D"
And that ending in tears.
Natasha!mun
And I imagined she jumped ballet companies a lot. Like ... she probably started out in Russia, killed some important Russian dude, and then you can't stick around after something like that. So, she'd change her appearance enough, go to another country, join their most prominent ballet company, and rinse and repeat.
Natasha!mun
... with enough variation that people wouldn't be all " ... people are being killed when they meet the lead dancer ... maybe I shouldn't ... :|"
So, like, maybe the second time she courted the guy she was there to kill, pretending to be an innocent ballet type until she found an opening.
hawkinhisnest
okay, but yes. so, thinking like.. she kills someone S.H.I.E.L.D. has eyes on, so they set it up for Clint to be a target?
Natasha!mun
But yeah. Backing up. Natasha kills someone S.H.I.E.L.D. had eyes on, and then they set Clint up as her next target.
hawkinhisnest
*nod*
Natasha!mun
Then what happens? Besides, you know, Clint not shooting her in the face and Natasha running away with him. :-P
hawkinhisnest
LOL. okay. I think it'd have to be one that they were together a while before either of them was going to pull the trigger. long enough at least for Clint to... well, he won't let me say "get to know her" since she was undercover at the time, too, but... that's what it would have been. for him to see that she was getting used and so on
Natasha!mun
*nods*
You think Fury wanted intel as well as her dead? That, at least, would explain why they would have painted Clint a target, rather than setting him up as a sniper on a roof somewhere.
hawkinhisnest
probably *nod*
Natasha!mun
... I wonder if Clint was the one she ended up courting as a means to get close to to kill.
hawkinhisnest
I wonder if.... okay. they give Clint the order to take her out. maybe the spy vs spy starts earlier than her employers realize? like. maybe he started to do the sniper on a rooftop thing - but ended up seeing her meeting with a guy in a trench coat in the park and feeding the ducks
(/Good Omens)
hawkinhisnest
because Fury = the spy, and Clint had been with S.H.I.E.L.D. a while at that point, and had been a "take whatever jobs there are" sniper before that, so he'd know a "...there's a second level to this"
Natasha!mun
*nods*
So ... he sees her meeting with whoever, reports back to Fury, and then they decide that they need to figure out what's going on before Clint takes her out of the game? Or ... ?
hawkinhisnest
if that works for you?
Natasha!mun
It does!
hawkinhisnest
I think he still had orders to take her down - but I think she ended up on the other end of the bow because she made the move first
like, there's this sense of him going "and I thought we were having such a nice time" at her, at some point :-P
Natasha!mun
Probably. She's not stupid. She would have figured him out eventually and either been ordered to take him out or being terrified, knowing exactly why he was there, and figuring she'd get the jump on him.
hawkinhisnest
*nodnod* either one?
hawkinhisnest
or some of both? I... the sentences I got earlier, and I thought at first they were like.. one scenario or another, but then I started thinking I could use them both in the same piece:
He sees in her eyes the same thing that looks back at him from the mirror after a mission gone wrong.
and
Instead of the unhinged thing he usually sees before he puts an arrow through someone's chest, there's resignation, and it's that difference that has him easing the tension on the string slightly.
Natasha!mun
I wish I could tell you which it was, though. Both ... feel right, as weird as it sounds. Like ... I think canonically -- as far as comic canon goes -- she'd been programmed to a certain degree with, like, for lack of better wording an override command, so that if she wasn't doing what she was told, whoever could use that and get her to go all kill crazy anyway. And in the movies, she mentioned knowing what it was like to be unmade, so ... I can imagine there was some degree of psychological mindfucking and conditioning and such there, too. So ... I want to say there was the fear and her thinking she needed to take him out before he got to her, but I also want to say her employers found out about Clint the same time she did, figured she was too close to get the job done, didn't want to lose their asset, and set her to kill crazy.
hawkinhisnest
no, no, that makes sense
Natasha!mun
Oh, good.
Natasha!mun
And I think both your lines could work for the same fic, taking that into account. I mean, I imagine they'd hold the conditioning stuff over her head -- "Look, if you don't do this, we'll make you do it." -- which would fit the second. And the fear and then the resignation, before, when she realizes who he really is, and then after, after he beats her and she's sitting there thinking this is it, this is where he puts an arrow between her eyes, that fits the first.
hawkinhisnest
*nodnod*
Natasha!mun
:-D
hawkinhisnest
and I kind of... I think Clint might have disappeared with her for a few days. because if he'd taken her right back to S.H.I.E.L.D., they'd just have locked her up, which. wasn't really what he had in mind.
Natasha!mun
... and then I have this mental image of him knocking her out instead, and her waking up in some tiny hotel room, halfway around the country, with him sitting on the floor by the bed.
Yes.
hawkinhisnest
heh, get out of my head :-P
Natasha!mun
XD
No. Is cozy here.
hawkinhisnest
because yeah. I think the scene on the helicarrier when Clint wakes up was a mirror, for them
Natasha!mun
*NODS* Agreed.
hawkinhisnest
with her doing a lot of yelling in every language she knew and alternating between cussing at him and begging for him to let her go, and him just pouring cups of water and so on
Natasha!mun
Yep.
And her eventually calming down after however long, and like ... him not letting her go, right away, when she does, because it might be a trick. And then when he does finally go to let her out, it turns out that she could have escaped at any time after she stopped freaking out and stayed.
hawkinhisnest
*nod*
hawkinhisnest
I also kind of think what Icarus wrote probably happened at some point. with her expecting him to do.... stuff
Natasha!mun
*NODS*
Yeah, I do, too.
hawkinhisnest
(keep typing, but brb)
Natasha!mun
Because that's ... what she was. That's what she did. She used her body to get close to people and people took advantage of that. Not ... specifically rape, but ... if she had to sleep with someone to get closer to what she wanted or was there to do or whatever, she did. Even if she didn't want to or it disgusted her or whatever. She didn't fight back. She just ... did it. And I imagine she came to distrust men and think that was what they all wanted, so ... stuck in a tiny hotel room, with just him? That's what she expected of him.
hawkinhisnest
*nod* which I think he knew but also kind of hated. which is... I also think it was a loooooooooong time before he'd let her do more than kiss him, once they started doing such things
Natasha!mun
*NODS*
hawkinhisnest
because what if it was still just... that. for her.
Natasha!mun
Yeah. And ... I don't think she's ... completely broken of that. I mean, she's not prone to hopping into bed with whoever for the sake of a job anymore -- and if Fury suggested it, she'd probably tell him to go screw himself -- but ... well, look at her in IM2. She definitely uses her sex appeal to her advantage and likely without thinking too hard about it.
hawkinhisnest
*nod*
hawkinhisnest
(I also think one of the first times they did go farther was a "holy shit and thank God we're not dead" thing :-P )
Natasha!mun
I'd agree.
hawkinhisnest
but yeah. hanging out in some dingy off the map hotel until she came down - and then took her back to S.H.I.E.L.D. all "we can haz new agent!". and then Fury beat Clint to death with his own bow, the end :-P
Natasha!mun
LOL Pretty much.
Fury was probably all " ... seriously? Seriously?"
Natasha!mun
Which ... yeah. Bow beating.
:-P
hawkinhisnest
and Clint just going "no, seriously" and like.. her dumping a pile of intel - willingly - on Fury's desk, or something :-P
Natasha!mun
Yep.
hawkinhisnest
and then Fury saddling Clint with her forever until he was sure she wasn't going to stab them all the minute someone looked away :-P
"if she kills us all, I'll have you shot" or something :-P
Natasha!mun
LOL
Yep.
And then they became team of AWESOME!
hawkinhisnest
\o/
Natasha!mun
\o/!
What: Notes: Backstory: How they met
hawkinhisnest okay. can we discuss Clint and Natasha's backstory, at some point? because their history in the comics doesn't really fit in the MCU without deleting big chunks
Natasha!mun
Considering comics!Natasha is, like, as old as Steve, if I remember correctly? Yeah, no. :-P
So, yeah. We should talk backstory.
hawkinhisnest well, and comics!Clint joins the Avengers because he and Natasha were going up against Tony, and when that didn't end well, he changed sides. but I mentally had it that they had never met before Clint was ordered to kill her
Natasha!mun
*nods* Yeah, that was my thought, too.
Natasha!mun
Like I said, I like the fact that she was using ballet as a cover when she was the bad guy ... and I kind of ... imagine whoever was sending her out to kill people, like, had her assassinating high profile targets that way. Like ... "HAY YOU WANNA MEET THE LEAD DANCER? :-D :-D :D"
And that ending in tears.
Natasha!mun
And I imagined she jumped ballet companies a lot. Like ... she probably started out in Russia, killed some important Russian dude, and then you can't stick around after something like that. So, she'd change her appearance enough, go to another country, join their most prominent ballet company, and rinse and repeat.
Natasha!mun
... with enough variation that people wouldn't be all " ... people are being killed when they meet the lead dancer ... maybe I shouldn't ... :|"
So, like, maybe the second time she courted the guy she was there to kill, pretending to be an innocent ballet type until she found an opening.
hawkinhisnest okay, but yes. so, thinking like.. she kills someone S.H.I.E.L.D. has eyes on, so they set it up for Clint to be a target?
Natasha!mun
But yeah. Backing up. Natasha kills someone S.H.I.E.L.D. had eyes on, and then they set Clint up as her next target.
hawkinhisnest *nod*
Natasha!mun
Then what happens? Besides, you know, Clint not shooting her in the face and Natasha running away with him. :-P
hawkinhisnest LOL. okay. I think it'd have to be one that they were together a while before either of them was going to pull the trigger. long enough at least for Clint to... well, he won't let me say "get to know her" since she was undercover at the time, too, but... that's what it would have been. for him to see that she was getting used and so on
Natasha!mun
*nods*
You think Fury wanted intel as well as her dead? That, at least, would explain why they would have painted Clint a target, rather than setting him up as a sniper on a roof somewhere.
hawkinhisnest probably *nod*
Natasha!mun
... I wonder if Clint was the one she ended up courting as a means to get close to to kill.
hawkinhisnest I wonder if.... okay. they give Clint the order to take her out. maybe the spy vs spy starts earlier than her employers realize? like. maybe he started to do the sniper on a rooftop thing - but ended up seeing her meeting with a guy in a trench coat in the park and feeding the ducks
(/Good Omens)
hawkinhisnest because Fury = the spy, and Clint had been with S.H.I.E.L.D. a while at that point, and had been a "take whatever jobs there are" sniper before that, so he'd know a "...there's a second level to this"
Natasha!mun
*nods*
So ... he sees her meeting with whoever, reports back to Fury, and then they decide that they need to figure out what's going on before Clint takes her out of the game? Or ... ?
hawkinhisnest if that works for you?
Natasha!mun
It does!
hawkinhisnest I think he still had orders to take her down - but I think she ended up on the other end of the bow because she made the move first
like, there's this sense of him going "and I thought we were having such a nice time" at her, at some point :-P
Natasha!mun
Probably. She's not stupid. She would have figured him out eventually and either been ordered to take him out or being terrified, knowing exactly why he was there, and figuring she'd get the jump on him.
hawkinhisnest *nodnod* either one?
hawkinhisnest or some of both? I... the sentences I got earlier, and I thought at first they were like.. one scenario or another, but then I started thinking I could use them both in the same piece:
He sees in her eyes the same thing that looks back at him from the mirror after a mission gone wrong.
and
Instead of the unhinged thing he usually sees before he puts an arrow through someone's chest, there's resignation, and it's that difference that has him easing the tension on the string slightly.
Natasha!mun
I wish I could tell you which it was, though. Both ... feel right, as weird as it sounds. Like ... I think canonically -- as far as comic canon goes -- she'd been programmed to a certain degree with, like, for lack of better wording an override command, so that if she wasn't doing what she was told, whoever could use that and get her to go all kill crazy anyway. And in the movies, she mentioned knowing what it was like to be unmade, so ... I can imagine there was some degree of psychological mindfucking and conditioning and such there, too. So ... I want to say there was the fear and her thinking she needed to take him out before he got to her, but I also want to say her employers found out about Clint the same time she did, figured she was too close to get the job done, didn't want to lose their asset, and set her to kill crazy.
hawkinhisnest no, no, that makes sense
Natasha!mun
Oh, good.
Natasha!mun
And I think both your lines could work for the same fic, taking that into account. I mean, I imagine they'd hold the conditioning stuff over her head -- "Look, if you don't do this, we'll make you do it." -- which would fit the second. And the fear and then the resignation, before, when she realizes who he really is, and then after, after he beats her and she's sitting there thinking this is it, this is where he puts an arrow between her eyes, that fits the first.
hawkinhisnest *nodnod*
Natasha!mun
:-D
hawkinhisnest and I kind of... I think Clint might have disappeared with her for a few days. because if he'd taken her right back to S.H.I.E.L.D., they'd just have locked her up, which. wasn't really what he had in mind.
Natasha!mun
... and then I have this mental image of him knocking her out instead, and her waking up in some tiny hotel room, halfway around the country, with him sitting on the floor by the bed.
Yes.
hawkinhisnest heh, get out of my head :-P
Natasha!mun
XD
No. Is cozy here.
hawkinhisnest because yeah. I think the scene on the helicarrier when Clint wakes up was a mirror, for them
Natasha!mun
*NODS* Agreed.
hawkinhisnest with her doing a lot of yelling in every language she knew and alternating between cussing at him and begging for him to let her go, and him just pouring cups of water and so on
Natasha!mun
Yep.
And her eventually calming down after however long, and like ... him not letting her go, right away, when she does, because it might be a trick. And then when he does finally go to let her out, it turns out that she could have escaped at any time after she stopped freaking out and stayed.
hawkinhisnest *nod*
hawkinhisnest I also kind of think what Icarus wrote probably happened at some point. with her expecting him to do.... stuff
Natasha!mun
*NODS*
Yeah, I do, too.
hawkinhisnest (keep typing, but brb)
Natasha!mun
Because that's ... what she was. That's what she did. She used her body to get close to people and people took advantage of that. Not ... specifically rape, but ... if she had to sleep with someone to get closer to what she wanted or was there to do or whatever, she did. Even if she didn't want to or it disgusted her or whatever. She didn't fight back. She just ... did it. And I imagine she came to distrust men and think that was what they all wanted, so ... stuck in a tiny hotel room, with just him? That's what she expected of him.
hawkinhisnest *nod* which I think he knew but also kind of hated. which is... I also think it was a loooooooooong time before he'd let her do more than kiss him, once they started doing such things
Natasha!mun
*NODS*
hawkinhisnest because what if it was still just... that. for her.
Natasha!mun
Yeah. And ... I don't think she's ... completely broken of that. I mean, she's not prone to hopping into bed with whoever for the sake of a job anymore -- and if Fury suggested it, she'd probably tell him to go screw himself -- but ... well, look at her in IM2. She definitely uses her sex appeal to her advantage and likely without thinking too hard about it.
hawkinhisnest *nod*
hawkinhisnest (I also think one of the first times they did go farther was a "holy shit and thank God we're not dead" thing :-P )
Natasha!mun
I'd agree.
hawkinhisnest but yeah. hanging out in some dingy off the map hotel until she came down - and then took her back to S.H.I.E.L.D. all "we can haz new agent!". and then Fury beat Clint to death with his own bow, the end :-P
Natasha!mun
LOL Pretty much.
Fury was probably all " ... seriously? Seriously?"
Natasha!mun
Which ... yeah. Bow beating.
:-P
hawkinhisnest and Clint just going "no, seriously" and like.. her dumping a pile of intel - willingly - on Fury's desk, or something :-P
Natasha!mun
Yep.
hawkinhisnest and then Fury saddling Clint with her forever until he was sure she wasn't going to stab them all the minute someone looked away :-P
"if she kills us all, I'll have you shot" or something :-P
Natasha!mun
LOL
Yep.
And then they became team of AWESOME!
hawkinhisnest \o/
Natasha!mun
\o/!
